... and the game of the day is "BASH THE STUDENT!"

Ok guys, I'm back.. to post another rant about the geek elitism that goes on in the big world out there.  If you're wondering why this bothers me so much, its because you know I realize just how many people out there that might be trying to actually learn a thing or two about web-design on their own and/or add to their knowledge somehow.  Sometimes, frankly even when its something you're pretty well-versed in, you find that there are still blank pages in your personal "book of knowledge" right?  So onto the web, it is... but be very careful now.. its a geek-dog eat geek-dog world out there!   

*A little background on me and my web dev career.  I grew up with the web much as a lot of others my age but I jumped on the design wagon right from th get-go and started trying to figure out the dang stuff.. 12 - 13 years later voila!  I landed a job and am now officially a web developer.  I know a thing or two, NOT about design any more than the next guy but about what its like to try and get answers and how long it takes..  to find it.  Especially with a group of nutcases like I'm posting about today.

Today's episode involves a poor designer-lady named Holli who is simply trying to find an answer to her CSS problems and how the "great" IE6 handled them.  Well.. enough intro..

Holli:

Hi all,

I'm checking to see if anyone knows of a hack or trick or whatever to get IE6 to keep a minimum width of a tableless page. I have the entire page content wrapped in a container div called bodywrap that sets the min-width to 760px.... 

[whole quote not important]

Schmoe #1:

Why on &Planet; would you do that? I can see the point in setting a
_maximum_ width, but do you really want to force horizontal scrolling
whenever the canvas width is less than 760 pixels (or, on print, chopping
off the ends of lines)?

If you are playing with _such_ hacks, I don't really see what the problem
is, technically. If your document simply contains a 760 pixels wide image,
why wouldn't a browser make the document at least 760 pixels wide? (This is
really a _problem_ rather than a solution in any normal case, but I already
told that.) As usual, if we could see the URL...

I'm afraid you are seriously misguided. Especially if people who maintain
the pages don't understand markup issues, you should create valid markup for
them.

Why do say that if you know that the markup "cannot" be valid? Surely if it
can be valid HTML, it's very trivial to make it valid XHTML (if you know
what XHTML actually is).

Holli:

I guess I should've specified "NO LECTURES PLEASE!"

I didn't come here for a lecture. I came here to find out if any css
gurus might know the solution to my problem. Sorry, I don't have a
public site to test on, but I pasted the relevant html. I can always
copy and paste the whole thing, but I don't think that's necessary.

And, FYI, putting a hack spacer gif at the top of your document keeps
a horizontal scroll bar, but still lets all the floats and everything
underneath it stack on top of each other.

So, does anyone have a solution to the IE6 min-width problem?

Thanks!
Holli

Holli somehow is able to respectfully reply although she made her point clearly too.. Go Holli! lol.

Schmoe #2:

And what would that have accomplished? In reply to her "no lectures " comment.

Are you authoring for the www? (That is the topic of this group.)
Create a test directory and post there.

As you already appear to know, IE/Win ignores min and max width and
height. The best solution I can think to offer you is to rethink your
approach, design flexibly, and don't try to specify a min-width on the
page. It is terrible for usability.

Ok #2 (they don't even deserve names..haha), I think #1 already covered the "we think you're an idiot and less than worthy of a real answer from us" subject.. Moving on. 

But as the elitist jerks of the field cluster together like a.. a...  nevermind.   You know it.  There's more, of course!

Schmoe #3:

I guess we should have recognised right away that you came here for a
free handout, rather than to participate in a usenet discussion.

That last one was a very intelligent statement, don't ya think?  Since the forum I found this on was a free one, why would she think that the answers would be anything but free?  Jeez.  Besides I think from reading into things that Holli is a smart enough girl that if she were paying for services, she sure as heck would be expecting more than these guys are obviously capable of offering!  ha!

The last Schmoe, #4 is the worst. 

Sometimes, listening to a lecture is the price for gaining free advice. That is bullcrap.  Nothing says that asking questions no matter if it is paid for or free, that we should be required to endure the abusive attitudes of people like those above. period.

Would it really kill you to nod politely and perhaps counter with your
position rather than rudely tell someone that is offering you advice that
you want to dictate the terms they can offer it under?   No, it probably wouldn't have killed her, but fact is, she only replied in kind and actually wasn't the one being elitist in her remarks.  She just asked for some respect. 

Does having to read a lecture cause you physical pain and discomfort such
that it's impossible for you to ignore or even *gasp* consider it?  I'm speechless as to how arrogant some people can truly be.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, and perhaps even lecturing a little myself. But
it does irk me that you can ask for advice and then be rude to the people
that offer it to you.   First of all, sounds like a disclaimer.. second of all, this guy by the way offered nothing else to the thread but more of the same. 

Frankly, I saw very little advice in this series of posts and more "you're still a noob" type of comments.  Yet another day proving to me that its not worth putting your questions out there unless you are a glutton for punishment.  Stick with a forum if you find one, that is respectful and help to build it up to one that is full of great knowledge and let these kinds dwindle away..

:steps down: :crickets chirping:
 
Check it out, I haven't made it up lol:  http://bytes.com/groups/css/98188-min-width-ie6