2 posts tagged “developers”

Ok guys, I'm back.. to post another rant about the geek elitism that goes on in the big world out there.  If you're wondering why this bothers me so much, its because you know I realize just how many people out there that might be trying to actually learn a thing or two about web-design on their own and/or add to their knowledge somehow.  Sometimes, frankly even when its something you're pretty well-versed in, you find that there are still blank pages in your personal "book of knowledge" right?  So onto the web, it is... but be very careful now.. its a geek-dog eat geek-dog world out there!   

*A little background on me and my web dev career.  I grew up with the web much as a lot of others my age but I jumped on the design wagon right from th get-go and started trying to figure out the dang stuff.. 12 - 13 years later voila!  I landed a job and am now officially a web developer.  I know a thing or two, NOT about design any more than the next guy but about what its like to try and get answers and how long it takes..  to find it.  Especially with a group of nutcases like I'm posting about today.

Today's episode involves a poor designer-lady named Holli who is simply trying to find an answer to her CSS problems and how the "great" IE6 handled them.  Well.. enough intro..

Holli:

Hi all,

I'm checking to see if anyone knows of a hack or trick or whatever to get IE6 to keep a minimum width of a tableless page. I have the entire page content wrapped in a container div called bodywrap that sets the min-width to 760px.... 

[whole quote not important]

She posts her code...

Schmoe #1:

Why on &Planet; would you do that? I can see the point in setting a
_maximum_ width, but do you really want to force horizontal scrolling
whenever the canvas width is less than 760 pixels (or, on print, chopping
off the ends of lines)?

If you are playing with _such_ hacks, I don't really see what the problem
is, technically. If your document simply contains a 760 pixels wide image,
why wouldn't a browser make the document at least 760 pixels wide? (This is
really a _problem_ rather than a solution in any normal case, but I already
told that.) As usual, if we could see the URL...

I'm afraid you are seriously misguided. Especially if people who maintain
the pages don't understand markup issues, you should create valid markup for
them.

Why do say that if you know that the markup "cannot" be valid? Surely if it
can be valid HTML, it's very trivial to make it valid XHTML (if you know
what XHTML actually is).

Thanks Schmoe #1,  Very productive geeknology there.  OY VEI.  That was nothing but a paragraph focused on ridiculing the poster, don't ya think?  But alas, we are not done.. apparently Holli agrees...

Holli:

I guess I should've specified "NO LECTURES PLEASE!"

I didn't come here for a lecture. I came here to find out if any css
gurus might know the solution to my problem. Sorry, I don't have a
public site to test on, but I pasted the relevant html. I can always
copy and paste the whole thing, but I don't think that's necessary.

And, FYI, putting a hack spacer gif at the top of your document keeps
a horizontal scroll bar, but still lets all the floats and everything
underneath it stack on top of each other.

So, does anyone have a solution to the IE6 min-width problem?

Thanks!
Holli

Holli somehow is able to respectfully reply although she made her point clearly too.. Go Holli! lol.

Schmoe #2:

And what would that have accomplished? In reply to her "no lectures " comment.

Are you authoring for the www? (That is the topic of this group.)
Create a test directory and post there.

As you already appear to know, IE/Win ignores min and max width and
height. The best solution I can think to offer you is to rethink your
approach, design flexibly, and don't try to specify a min-width on the
page. It is terrible for usability.

Ok #2 (they don't even deserve names..haha), I think #1 already covered the "we think you're an idiot and less than worthy of a real answer from us" subject.. Moving on. 

But as the elitist jerks of the field cluster together like a.. a...  nevermind.   You know it.  There's more, of course!

Schmoe #3:

I guess we should have recognised right away that you came here for a
free handout, rather than to participate in a usenet discussion.

That last one was a very intelligent statement, don't ya think?  Since the forum I found this on was a free one, why would she think that the answers would be anything but free?  Jeez.  Besides I think from reading into things that Holli is a smart enough girl that if she were paying for services, she sure as heck would be expecting more than these guys are obviously capable of offering!  ha!

The last Schmoe, #4 is the worst. 

Sometimes, listening to a lecture is the price for gaining free advice. That is bullcrap.  Nothing says that asking questions no matter if it is paid for or free, that we should be required to endure the abusive attitudes of people like those above. period.

Would it really kill you to nod politely and perhaps counter with your
position rather than rudely tell someone that is offering you advice that
you want to dictate the terms they can offer it under?   No, it probably wouldn't have killed her, but fact is, she only replied in kind and actually wasn't the one being elitist in her remarks.  She just asked for some respect. 

Does having to read a lecture cause you physical pain and discomfort such
that it's impossible for you to ignore or even *gasp* consider it?  I'm speechless as to how arrogant some people can truly be.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, and perhaps even lecturing a little myself. But
it does irk me that you can ask for advice and then be rude to the people
that offer it to you.   First of all, sounds like a disclaimer.. second of all, this guy by the way offered nothing else to the thread but more of the same. 

Frankly, I saw very little advice in this series of posts and more "you're still a noob" type of comments.  Yet another day proving to me that its not worth putting your questions out there unless you are a glutton for punishment.  Stick with a forum if you find one, that is respectful and help to build it up to one that is full of great knowledge and let these kinds dwindle away..

:steps down: :crickets chirping:
 
Check it out, I haven't made it up lol:  http://bytes.com/groups/css/98188-min-width-ie6

Ok so this is wayyy off the topic in relation to what I typically write here on my vox but I have to get something off my chest.  Working in the Web development field for a few years now, and IT for over a decade, Geeks love their soapboxes; their proverbial pedestals; their high horses... They like to carry their chips clearly on their shoulders and for those of you who are completely on the "consumer end" of this, its not just YOU that they are rude to!  Where am I going with this?  Here's my take on the whole IT dept of the world.  We (as a whole) are arrogant B*tards.  Honestly.  I hope that I am not one of those that would be "l33t" to people or talk down to those that might need my help but lets face it, I was young, and stupid at one point (not technically speaking, just customer-service wise) anyway.. so I know that its an easy trap to fall into and I still probably do it, but why oh why do geeks think they are God's gift to the world because they know computers?  Oy vei! 

This came up today because being a web developer today entails constant research :gasp:  what?  I don't know everything there is to know about asp.net, html, xml or abcdefg language?  Nope, and I'm glad, it would go right to my head too haha.  But no one does.  I research everyday for things that might help my coding or for things I have yet to figure out how to do.  Theres tons of information, but God forbid I ever have to actually post an actual question on a forum!  Trust me, you think Kidrobot forums will eat you up?  Its no better with the geek forums either.  Sad, but true.  People are bashed everyday and mocked and talked down to and insulted -- when the whole reason for the forum is because there are those of us that "don't know it all".. ya know?  LOL.  Anyway it wasn't my post that was reamed, but someone happened to post their question on two separate forums and was kind of "yelled at" for doing so.  I thought it was bad enough but it actually got worse and it even sounded like the writer thought they were being helpful.. just look Trust me this is typical:

...There's no point in posting identical messages to both Microsoft public
forums and Microsoft public newsgroups on the same day (as you did with this
one)....

In other words, "You're an idiot. Don't you know better?"

No answer on the question as you seem to have covered the bases.

Of course that person has no answers anyway.. wtf?

I'm surprised this isn't having the desired effect.

I'm sure you've had an effect alright, but definitely probably not the desired one.. lol.

You've run iisreset for luck I suppose.

What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Oh yeah, thats what we developers do that are IDIOTS.  Just run things and hope for the best.  ?? Not unless we work for some big UNNAMED company that tends to do that with every iteration of its very widely used, but not so great piece of UNNAMED SOFTWARE that runs our world (not in a good way) whose name begins with the thirteenth letter of the alphabet.  But I'm not saying names :P

Ok I'm done ranting.  Maybe I'll start a humor post regularly showing what arrogant B*tards geeks can be. Maybe just to remind myself not to be one :)